One of the reasons we moderate our blog comments is to minimize the time wasted by feminists posting nonsense. But sometimes I (and J4MB supporters) engage in exchanges with feminists on other websites, not to persuade them through rational arguments to reconsider their positions – that would be impossible – but to inform other readers of some of our arguments and sources of information.
Earlier today an excellent new piece was posted on The Conservative Woman website, Laura Perrins’s Women must do as they are told. Study science, forget children, and earn a lot. Into the comments stream (predictably) stormed two jack-booted FemiNazis, ‘Feminist_Future’ and ‘Fabian_Solutions’.
Fabian_Solutions posted a lengthy series of comments, which were ludicrous even by her woeful standards:
A List of Men’s Rights Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On
Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their “traditional” marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want anyone to get raped in prison. Permissiveness and jokes about prison rape are part of rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want anyone to be falsely accused of rape. False rape accusations discredit rape victims, which reinforces rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to be lonely and we do not hate “nice guys.” The idea that certain people are inherently more valuable than other people because of superficial physical attributes is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to have to pay for dinner. We want the opportunity to achieve financial success on par with men in any field we choose (and are qualified for), and the fact that we currently don’t is part of patriarchy. The idea that men should coddle and provide for women, and/or purchase their affections in romantic contexts, is condescending and damaging and part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of either gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to be viewed with suspicion when you take your child to the park (men frequently insist that this is a serious issue, so I will take them at their word). The assumption that men are insatiable sexual animals, combined with the idea that it’s unnatural for men to care for children, is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.
Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.
Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.
If you really care about those issues as passionately as you say you do, you should be thanking feminists, because feminism is a social movement actively dedicated to dismantling every single one of them. The fact that you blame feminists—your allies—for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn’t nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?
I limited myself to this short reply:
Your comments are too silly for words, they’ve been discredited countless times, and I won’t waste my time on them. But I particularly enjoyed this gem:
‘Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.’
Cue the legendary video of the Canadian feminist ‘Big Red’ in full flight, which ends with those exact words, and a final choice one. Enjoy.
Herbert Purdy delivered an altogether more substantive riposte to Fabian_Solutions, which takes up the remainder of this blog piece:
Having watched and read your comments in this and other fora with increasing disgust (for example your triumphalist assertions of a feminist progressive infiltration of our entire society and that you have now ‘won’), I cannot allow your ravings to go unremarked any longer.
You seem to have no vestige of understanding that simply pouring out words expressing ideas that are so far removed from people’s empirical observation is not going to work. What you are saying is nothing short of raving, frankly. You are denying the truth, and that makes what you say naked propaganda. Who on earth do you think you are kidding? You are clearly irretrievably radicalised by feminist sophistry to the extent that you have lost touch with reason.
Just a few days ago, Dean Esmay from A Voice for Men in the United States said something that speaks directly to what you have said above. I can do no better than quote him to you:
“In the 1970s friends of mine were facing bomb and death threats, censorship, and harassment. It has not changed in the 40 years since then–please stop lying and saying it’s different now, because it isn’t. Feminism as a movement has taken billions of dollars and still runs on billions of dollars; this is why constant comparisons to the cash-poor, grassroots MHRM is stupid. (Well, it’s one of several reasons why that’s a dumb comparison, anyway.) Feminism lies about domestic violence. It lies about rape. It lies about families. It lies about fathers. It lies about little boys. It lies about girls. It lies about women. It lies about history. Feminism bullies. It bullies women who won’t toe the line. It bullies men who won’t toe the line. It bullies children who question its precepts. Every time a feminist repeats racist hateful lies about “patriarchy” or “rape culture” and you don’t identify both those ideas as toxic pseudoscience based on hateful, bigoted preconceptions, you enable that toxic, bullying, pseudo-scientific hate movement.”
(I invite anyone reading this to read his full text here.)
Your attack on patriarchy is an attack on fatherhood. You must know this. Patriarchy is the rule or authority of the father in the sanguineous family: that central unit, which, for centuries if not millennia, provided the building blocks of stable society. Patriarchy is what has allowed society to grow and achieve what it has. It has ensured protection of the realm and the passing on of private family assets to children without the interference of the state. And it provided a moral rule in the private household, which gave children a framework in which to learn how to function in society as adults. And you and your bigoted, totalitarian like are intent on bringing all that to an end, reaching out to men as friends. Don’t make me laugh.
You call yourself “progressive”. I know what that means, but to those who are rather less well informed, it is a double meaning, because what you want is not progress, it is an attempt to take society back to a primitive, tribe-like state, along the lines of Friedrich Engels’s ideas and it is utterly against progress.
What feminist “progressives” like you are trying to do is overturn centuries of social development so as to install your deeply left-wing vision of society: a Marxist/communist form of society in which the private family is abolished in favour of the collective; where all women work rather than stay at home and nurture their children, obtaining deep fulfilment from playing their vital part in the never to be repeated opportunity of equipping those children for later life. There are only a brief few years – the early years – in which only a mother’s undivided, selfless, loving, caring attention can give the child the security, significance and self worth it needs to grow up to be an effective, contributing member of a stable, progressing society, and you and your fellow travellers think all that can be replaced by a creche. You would rather see women working and paying all their earnings to a child-minder rather than do the job themselves, just to fulfil your ideological ideal for women’s “equality”.
Your “progressive” society wants to get all women out of the home, out of the sort of mothering I have described, and into the workforce, leaving child rearing to others, or to the state: effectively nationalising children and replacing the father as protector and provider. That is Socialist Communism, and it is intended to deprive children of their rightful, human familial inheritance, which is cultural as well as financial.
Germaine Greer disclosed this 45 years ago when she said, “Women’s liberation, if it abolishes the patriarchal family, will abolish a necessary substructure of the authoritarian state, and once that withers away Marx will have come true willy-nilly, so let’s get on with it.” You say you don’t want children. That is your choice, but it does not confer on you the right to seek to impose that on all women (let alone men who you so arrogantly patronise), and to shame them for wanting to be nurturing mothers rather than fitting childcare in to an otherwise busy life, as though that was all right. That is totalitarianism.
Neither does it give you the right to undermine the lifestyle choices of men. Or to patronise them and enlist them in their own destruction as fathers and husbands. You want to bring about a society in which men are neutered: where they become nurturers so you can free women from all but the actual act of childbirth. You are an iniquitous bigot, who is verging on the insane. Your simpering sophistries, which you seek to pass off as empathy and alliance with men are despicable snake oil.
Who do you think you are kidding? Your attack on patriarchy is an attack on men, and their proper role in being responsible providers and protectors of their children, exercising their human right to guide and teach their children as well as love them. You and your “progressives” are intent on bringing all that down and people like me, who are far more rational, more intelligent, better educated, more balanced, more mature, more experienced, far more far-seeing than you – and a man – can read you like a book.
Yours are weasel words. They show you up for what you are: not only inhumane, but also inhuman, and egregiously duplicitous.
That is all I have to say to you. Be advised, I shall not respond to anything you might say in response. Contempt – deep, inexhaustible contempt – is all you deserve, and all you will get.