Justice for Men and Boys

'No man can sit down and withhold his hands from the warfare against wrong and get peace from his acquiescence.' Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924)

Ally Fogg: ‘The stupid, the hypocritical and the downright evil: A response to Justice 4 Men and Boys’

By 3 Comments

Ally Fogg is well-known as a leading commentator on gender and other issues for the Guardian. For some time I’ve been asking him to provide feedback on our public consultation document, and in the past couple of days I’ve spent quite a lot of time posting comments on his blog Heteronormative Patriarchy for Men (no, I don’t know what the term means either). Anyway, I’m delighted to say he’s just posted feedback on nine of the 20 proposals in our document in a new blog post. Enjoy:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/10/13/the-stupid-the-hypocritical-and-the-downright-evil-a-response-to-justice-4-men-and-boys

I’ve just left a polite comment in response to the piece, and I warmly invite you to do likewise. I find we get further by remaining calm and not responding to insults. Thank you.

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  • herbkr

    I think it is a good sign that someone like Ally Fogg has engaged with the debate. Having read all the responses and the exchanges (and having added my own ten pennerth) I think it has opened another set of thoughts in people (indeed, I am impressed by the thoughtfulness of the responses – far higher than I have seen in other exchanges) that will gain traction. I also think your measured and polite approach is the right way to get your message over. Stridency always dilutes the signal strength of the real message. I have gently challenged Ally to contribute to your policy ideas. It will be interesting to see if he does.

  • Nick diPerna

    He says: “I would, incidentally, say the exact same if anyone suggested a feminist political party to represent women and girls (and the men who love them.)”

    But we already do have 3 feminist political parties: Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem. Ally Frogg’s solution seems to be more socialism, but it is the socialist redistribution of wealth and opportunities that is the main problem here, which will always prioritise women and children over men, who are biologically expendable. Ironically, men would be far better off in a genuine free market situation (that Ally hates) of positive sum trade. Too many people confuse capitalism with corporatism.

  • Inevitably Ally falls back on his Socialist view. But non the less I think Mike prompting debate did a good job. I suspect I too would be too leftward for Mike. But I believe we are still at a stage where men’s issues are barely on the agenda politically, so three cheers Mike for your work withJ4MB. Though I would have nothing to do with UKIP they did and do raise a popular issue that has actively been suppressed by all three main Parties. I would, on balance, vote “yes” in a EU referendum. But I absolutely support the idea of a vote. Similarly with men’s issues the first step is to challenge the suppression and this starts with men and women realising that the political elite’s orthodoxies can be challenged. Finally men have been far too happy to leave much of public policy to women. So thank goodness for those women who challenge the status quo.

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